An incredibly thought provoking piece. I went to college with a large number of people who came from backgrounds similar to what you describe. This helped me understand them on a much deeper level. How fear was/is used to ensure compliance is incredibly disturbing. My family attended church fairly regularly when I was a kid but if the church we attended ever had kids spit pop into bowls to gross them out about kissing; I’m almost certain that would have been the last time we attended that church. Maybe it was the church I attended or maybe it was how my parents explained stuff said at church to my brother and I, but fear was never a part of church for me, nor should it be for anyone.
Jason, first, this is awesome. I was never into, even Christian, rock music. My SoBapt self felt like it was way too close to the devil's music like GnR or Metallica. Until my teenage years & some self discovery. Then college years & MUCH more self discovery. College is where my very best friend at the time, a great guy, walk-on at Bama, and very attractive (as noticed by my then unadmitted bi self in many dreams) would talk to me about he & his gf's "sex" life. He'd paired me up with her friend who was very much the same... all of us very "Christian" and from intense church backgrounds. He had convinced himself, and tried to convince me, that it wasn't actually sex as long as he... we'll say stopped just in time. Thus, he was a virgin, his gf was a virgin, and they'd stay that way till marriage. So, even beyond "soaking"... this was thrusts & all, just no conclusion from that act. The ways we'll contort ourselves for something we clearly recognize as BS, just to meet some manufactured sense of purity.
Now my much more open, expressive & still very bi self is wondering where he might be & if he's married yet....
lol I also stumbled over here into a smorgasbord of a music genre of which I was totally ignorant thanks to the Fullcast and your Twitter.
But I have some understanding of the faith part and the way guilt can take something that’s not bad and launch a person into making actual very bad decisions. That’s not a criticism of faith in general but it highlights the need for an empathetic guide for young people.
Hollllyyyy shit, Jason. Found you from the Fullcast and I read this wondering if I'd penned it myself in a fever dream.
This, in so many ways, is my childhood. I don't know where I'm at in my deconstruction (and what's coming on the other side of it), but like you commented below on Dave's stuff (which, depending on his age, means there's a non-zero chance I was at the same events in the 90s and 00s) - the goals of Mullins and Manning are what I've found myself wanting the church (or any church) to be...and it's not. It wasn't in the 90s, it wasn't in the 00s, and it wasn't in the last decade either. Not in the micro scale of smaller churches, and not in the macro of denominations and the "Christian body". At least, not here in the States.
What Jesus taught was radical and dangerous, and the church gave that away for comfort and ease - and in the process, acquired a whole lot of hypocrisy as the PTBNL. And teenagers, for all their dumb shit, are really, really good at sniffing out hypocrisy in authority figures. And so I don't trust anybody who won't admit to my face that faith and grace and mercy hard to grant and harder to accept.
But Manning and Mullins did, and so I hope that at the end of my deconstruction there's an alcoholic old priest and longhaired friendly musician sitting a table saying "hey, I found Jesus, he's over this way." But I'm terrified of who else is going to be in that room, and I don't know how to deal with the mass of people who think that this religion is based on shame and fear, rather than radical acceptance.
And so I sit, and I wait, and talk with others who will listen about these things. Thank you for adding your voice to this.
Thank you so much for this post. We have similar upbringings and seemed to have come to the same conclusions on a lot of our youth group-led past.
Rich Mullins is still one of my moral guideposts even if I may not believe everything I did back then. Hearing him speak/sing was when my questions started to arise also and seeing the dissonance of many happy health/wealth Christian members of my church sing "Awesome God" (a song not about the same kind of awesome as they thought).
This post and "The Comeback" post from around New Years have given me a lot of comfort. Please keep them coming. I need to show up to some Patreon fellowshipping sometime!
Hey there! My husband (Dave Fields lol) forwarded this to me and having listened to you on the fullcast and vbs for a long time, this may be my favorite thing I've ever heard from you. I'm a 37 year old woman who is still spending countless hours and money on therapy trying to recover from purity culture and the trauma is so real. It has totally soured me on taking my daughter to church because I refuse to have her face the kind of shame I've lived with for so long. This piece though really made me think about how this affected the boys around me as well. Thank you so much for your perspective and for voicing what I think so many who grew up in our background are experiencing as adults.
You made a joke about UCF having a masters in skateboarding a few years ago on the Fullcast I still laugh about. Being able to do that and share this level of vulnerability and honesty about that experience is very cool and unique. I remember when my parents banned the Simpsons and Bobby Brown and Metallica as they were trying to figure out the church thing. Zao blew my mind and finally gave me an out from Petra lol. Thanks for sharing this, so much relate and head nodding.
Maaan I grew up with a pretty similar experience. I was at all the church events, I went to Creation Festival every year and barely listened to any "secular" music until I got to HS. But I still remember everything feeling very fake and was constantly confused at the how the "Christian" adults in my life seemed to leave their professions about compassion and love being important at church when they left after the sermon. I met and briefly dated a woman at Penn State who came from the same sort of background as me. While we didn't practice "soaking" or anything like that, I remember the immense shame we both felt the morning after we did anything sexual... only to not speak for several days and then have the cycle repeat. I'm 34 and engaged now, I haven't been to a church in years, and I'm still wrestling with the role of religion in my life, and the guilt and shame that was taught to me throughout my childhood. Not sure I'm ever going to feel "normal", but man, I loved finding this and reading it. Gives me hope
Thanks for sharing Jason. I appreciate your vulnerability and willingness to discuss all of this. While still a Christian and involved in a local church, there are tons of things I similarly experienced and am grieving myself that you did growing up.
After reading the footnotes I can't shake the feeling that here is a solid "conceived in fire" joke there.
Seriously though, we are the same age and were 100% in exactly the same scene at the same time. I feel like there is a 90% chance we must've been at the same concert at some point. ("New Years Project" is my wife and I's song and is framed in the hallway surrounded by pictures of us from the era). You did a great job capturing the strangeness of adolescence and purity culture at that time. What a weird way to grow up. Between that and you essentially flipping through my CD case, this was a trip down memory lane, both good and bad.
Thank you so much. As someone who grew up in very conservative Redding Ca and at a christian school. This hit to the deep roots of the shame that comes with purity culture. And reading through the struggle and the deconstructing of ones self was very helpful and cathartic.
An incredibly thought provoking piece. I went to college with a large number of people who came from backgrounds similar to what you describe. This helped me understand them on a much deeper level. How fear was/is used to ensure compliance is incredibly disturbing. My family attended church fairly regularly when I was a kid but if the church we attended ever had kids spit pop into bowls to gross them out about kissing; I’m almost certain that would have been the last time we attended that church. Maybe it was the church I attended or maybe it was how my parents explained stuff said at church to my brother and I, but fear was never a part of church for me, nor should it be for anyone.
Jason, first, this is awesome. I was never into, even Christian, rock music. My SoBapt self felt like it was way too close to the devil's music like GnR or Metallica. Until my teenage years & some self discovery. Then college years & MUCH more self discovery. College is where my very best friend at the time, a great guy, walk-on at Bama, and very attractive (as noticed by my then unadmitted bi self in many dreams) would talk to me about he & his gf's "sex" life. He'd paired me up with her friend who was very much the same... all of us very "Christian" and from intense church backgrounds. He had convinced himself, and tried to convince me, that it wasn't actually sex as long as he... we'll say stopped just in time. Thus, he was a virgin, his gf was a virgin, and they'd stay that way till marriage. So, even beyond "soaking"... this was thrusts & all, just no conclusion from that act. The ways we'll contort ourselves for something we clearly recognize as BS, just to meet some manufactured sense of purity.
Now my much more open, expressive & still very bi self is wondering where he might be & if he's married yet....
Jason, I read it all. Outstanding. 👍👍
lol I also stumbled over here into a smorgasbord of a music genre of which I was totally ignorant thanks to the Fullcast and your Twitter.
But I have some understanding of the faith part and the way guilt can take something that’s not bad and launch a person into making actual very bad decisions. That’s not a criticism of faith in general but it highlights the need for an empathetic guide for young people.
Anyway, thanks for teaching me something new.
Hollllyyyy shit, Jason. Found you from the Fullcast and I read this wondering if I'd penned it myself in a fever dream.
This, in so many ways, is my childhood. I don't know where I'm at in my deconstruction (and what's coming on the other side of it), but like you commented below on Dave's stuff (which, depending on his age, means there's a non-zero chance I was at the same events in the 90s and 00s) - the goals of Mullins and Manning are what I've found myself wanting the church (or any church) to be...and it's not. It wasn't in the 90s, it wasn't in the 00s, and it wasn't in the last decade either. Not in the micro scale of smaller churches, and not in the macro of denominations and the "Christian body". At least, not here in the States.
What Jesus taught was radical and dangerous, and the church gave that away for comfort and ease - and in the process, acquired a whole lot of hypocrisy as the PTBNL. And teenagers, for all their dumb shit, are really, really good at sniffing out hypocrisy in authority figures. And so I don't trust anybody who won't admit to my face that faith and grace and mercy hard to grant and harder to accept.
But Manning and Mullins did, and so I hope that at the end of my deconstruction there's an alcoholic old priest and longhaired friendly musician sitting a table saying "hey, I found Jesus, he's over this way." But I'm terrified of who else is going to be in that room, and I don't know how to deal with the mass of people who think that this religion is based on shame and fear, rather than radical acceptance.
And so I sit, and I wait, and talk with others who will listen about these things. Thank you for adding your voice to this.
Thank you so much for this post. We have similar upbringings and seemed to have come to the same conclusions on a lot of our youth group-led past.
Rich Mullins is still one of my moral guideposts even if I may not believe everything I did back then. Hearing him speak/sing was when my questions started to arise also and seeing the dissonance of many happy health/wealth Christian members of my church sing "Awesome God" (a song not about the same kind of awesome as they thought).
This post and "The Comeback" post from around New Years have given me a lot of comfort. Please keep them coming. I need to show up to some Patreon fellowshipping sometime!
Hey there! My husband (Dave Fields lol) forwarded this to me and having listened to you on the fullcast and vbs for a long time, this may be my favorite thing I've ever heard from you. I'm a 37 year old woman who is still spending countless hours and money on therapy trying to recover from purity culture and the trauma is so real. It has totally soured me on taking my daughter to church because I refuse to have her face the kind of shame I've lived with for so long. This piece though really made me think about how this affected the boys around me as well. Thank you so much for your perspective and for voicing what I think so many who grew up in our background are experiencing as adults.
You made a joke about UCF having a masters in skateboarding a few years ago on the Fullcast I still laugh about. Being able to do that and share this level of vulnerability and honesty about that experience is very cool and unique. I remember when my parents banned the Simpsons and Bobby Brown and Metallica as they were trying to figure out the church thing. Zao blew my mind and finally gave me an out from Petra lol. Thanks for sharing this, so much relate and head nodding.
Just read this from your watch grid and thank you. Just sat in my car and thought for a good minute. Too much of this hits close.
Maaan I grew up with a pretty similar experience. I was at all the church events, I went to Creation Festival every year and barely listened to any "secular" music until I got to HS. But I still remember everything feeling very fake and was constantly confused at the how the "Christian" adults in my life seemed to leave their professions about compassion and love being important at church when they left after the sermon. I met and briefly dated a woman at Penn State who came from the same sort of background as me. While we didn't practice "soaking" or anything like that, I remember the immense shame we both felt the morning after we did anything sexual... only to not speak for several days and then have the cycle repeat. I'm 34 and engaged now, I haven't been to a church in years, and I'm still wrestling with the role of religion in my life, and the guilt and shame that was taught to me throughout my childhood. Not sure I'm ever going to feel "normal", but man, I loved finding this and reading it. Gives me hope
Thanks for sharing Jason. I appreciate your vulnerability and willingness to discuss all of this. While still a Christian and involved in a local church, there are tons of things I similarly experienced and am grieving myself that you did growing up.
I do think you'll enjoy my friend's short film on Purity Culture called Washed Away: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqT-3TKC3M&t=27s
After reading the footnotes I can't shake the feeling that here is a solid "conceived in fire" joke there.
Seriously though, we are the same age and were 100% in exactly the same scene at the same time. I feel like there is a 90% chance we must've been at the same concert at some point. ("New Years Project" is my wife and I's song and is framed in the hallway surrounded by pictures of us from the era). You did a great job capturing the strangeness of adolescence and purity culture at that time. What a weird way to grow up. Between that and you essentially flipping through my CD case, this was a trip down memory lane, both good and bad.
Thank you so much. As someone who grew up in very conservative Redding Ca and at a christian school. This hit to the deep roots of the shame that comes with purity culture. And reading through the struggle and the deconstructing of ones self was very helpful and cathartic.